Curse

AscalonWarrior · Jun 22, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

Ok, name ONE solo build other than perma shadow-form that can farm Underworld easily

W/Rt
W/D
E/Me
E/A
R/Me
Rt/Me
etc etc.

Striken7 · Jun 22, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Nerf SF, and every other ridiculously overpowered skill. Overpowered skills are bad for the game, despite what people who enjoy EZ-win God Mode say on forums.

Leave Chaos Planes alone, or better yet, make it even easier to farm with balanced skills, ingenuity, and talent. And set the Ecto price at the trader to ~1k each while your at it. GW was never designed to have an economy, and no item was ever supposed to cost anywhere near 100k except for the rarest of the rare vanity items, which would maybe reach the 100k limit.

Pro farmers and market players can GTFO for all I care, all they do is make life more difficult for other players in order to fulfill their selfish needs (now that sounds kinda like griefing to me).

SimonTheMaster · Jun 22, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Nerf SF already, it's ridiculous to be permanent invincible...

Dark Paladin X · Jun 22, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

Pro farmers and market players can GTFO for all I care, all they do is make life more difficult for other players in order to fulfill their selfish needs (now that sounds kinda like griefing to me).

Ummm...farmers are meant to help boost the economy and having ecto prices low is GOOD. I mean obsidian armor is already expensive the way it is.

And Shadow Form doesn't need a nerf, it's fine the way it is. Not to mention that SF isn't always 100% invincible.

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

With bonder it's 95% invincible, maintainable. Read last 2 pages.

Dark Paladin X · Jun 22, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

[Merged from another thread]

The heated controversy relating to the perma-Shadow Form build has caused lots of flaming and spamming and people arguing that perma-Shadow is destroying the economy. And because of that reason, most people want Shadow Form to be nerfed. However, doing so will not only cause making Shadow Form being useless, but invoking an angry protest from most Assassins. This is because is buff has been around for a few weeks, and nerfing it again is like giving candy to a baby and then taking it away. I'm not good at persuasion, but I will try to make valid arguments to change your mind.

Here are the few good reasons why Shadow Form should be the way it is:
1) It is not 100% invulernable
As I said before, Shadow Form is NOT 100% invincible. The enchantment cannot protect you from touch skills, signets, traps, and non-targeting AoE spells (particularly ones that are point blank). In fact, there is enough behemoths in the mountain path in the UW that is capable of killing you in one shot.

2) Nerfing Shadow Form WILL effect the ecto prices
Currently, ectos are around 4k ea. Apparently, this is good because it gives more incentive for people to buy because it's cheaper. Economics 101. Cheaper is always better, since people can save more and use the money to buy things. This keeps the economy running. Nerfing Shadow Form will make obtaining ectos even more difficult and such, it will raise the ecto prices and cause people to have less incentive to buy. And because of that, sellers will end up having lots of ectos unable to sell. Besides which, ectos are used to trade for everlasting tonics (which by average, if I'm not mistaken, is around 100-150 ectos) and obsidian armor (which I know lots of people want for the Hall of Monuments).

3) Nerfing Shadow Form will destroy oppurtunities.
Nerfing shadow form will destroy personal oppurtunities to get an items. Noticeably, rare miniatures, everlasting tonics, and obsidian armor (I myself, want the everlasting automatonic and the everlasting beetle juice). As well as oppurtunities to buy a lot of consumables for titles like Drunkard, Sweet Tooth, and Party Animal. Even people want those Powerstones to complete vanquishing or filling the hero handbooks for EotN reputation points. Nerfing Shadow Form will ruin the oppurtunity to farm want people wish to pursue. When Shadow Form was buffed, I farm in the UW not just because of the everlasting tonics, but to try something I really wanted to do (and some other people as well), which is farming UW in solo.

4) Other farming build smay not be effective on certain areas than the perma-shadow (particularly the UW)
For this one, people say there are other solo builds that can farm in the UW. Although they may do so, it isn't really effective because the build may lack one or two things:
1) Enchantment Removal
2) Interrupts
3) Negating damage (particularly the Bladed Aaxte)

For example, a 55 Monk build may have the ability to deal with enchantment removal due to Spell Breaker, but the build may not able to handle interrupts caused by Bladed Aaxte and Grasping Darknesses. perma-Shadow Form, on the other hand, is the only one that can handle all of these at once.

Some argue, that farming things in duo is better than farming in solo. However, it is a complete opposite. One, in order for this to be effective, you must do it with someone you know or someone you trust. Second, because loot is being shared, there be even situation where there are perpetual arguments and disagreements. For example, if one player gets 14 ectos while the other players gets 2 in one run, then there will instances of arguments or rage-quiting where the one who gets the least number of ectos leave out of anger. Normally, this situation can be handle with the 50/50 solution, but it isn't always that way because one may be doing the tanking while the other will do the damage. As such, doing things in a duo will get things less done due to disagreements. Perma-shadow, on the other hand, only requires yourself and can clear things in the UW easily (malus the charged blacknesses and the behemoths of course). And such, perma-shadow is not only easier, but you don't have to argue with anyone because you'll get all the loot anyways.

5) Nerfing Shadow Form will incite a massive protest
As with all nerfs, nerfing permashadow will incite protest from other people. In this case, this will anger a lot of assassins and perma-shadow farmers. Remember, the loot scaling? It caused a lot of people to angrily protest the scaling. And remember the Spirit Bond nerf (Spirit Bond once heal you when dealing over 60 damage with no limits), this angered a lot of 600 monks because of that. Although not everyone will disagree with the nerf, I believe most farmers nowadays are assassins and 55 monk is considered to be obsolete.

6) Finally, perma-shadow is the only build that can EASILY handle bosses (well, there are other builds, but perma-shadow can handle it EASILY).
That's true, because of the resistance to attacks and spells (most may have enchantment removal or interrupts), Permashadow can handle bosses way better than any other builds (which most bosses drop some sort of a "green" weapon). Although green weapons are pretty much worthless and hard to sell nowadays, some may choose to equip their heroes with a green weapon because one won't have to go through all the trouble to get the mods needed for the hero to use. Also, in HM, bosses drop elite tomes, which some may want to give an elite skill to their new characters to make life easier. As such, perma-shadow will effect how things will play around when it comes to getting skills and managing hero equipment. So what are going to equip your warrior hero with when Shadow Form is nerfed, a non-perfect Divine Favor staff?

Now, before you guys post and such, I want everyone to be respectful, and don't go to the extent of calling someone a vulgar language. Otherwise, I will simply report you.

Anyways, discuss your opinions relating to my argument and I will allow opposition and criticisms. Just that I will try to make counter arguments to counter your point.

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 22, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Don't change a thing. Keep things as they are. I think the main QQ'ers are the rich ones who have stacks of ecto. They are afraid that their stockpile will reduce their Godly wealth. The worst this could do is make FoW armor more easy to obtain for the average player. But come to think of it. I have only really seen a 1.2K difference in Ecto Prices since the Buff to PvE Shadow Form. Ecto goes down and then it goes up again. I have seen it at 5.5K recently at trader and then 3 hours later it will be 4.3K. It goes back and forth.

JUST SAY NO TO NERF's to PvE!!!!!!!!

N1ghtstalker · Jun 22, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

your arguments are true but some people are just worried for a crash of the ecto
yes the opportunities will be gone but shadowform can be used without perma
but balance is needed and if ecto crashes the prestige of obsidian will be gone and for people who farmed for it without perma it's really a kick in the dingdong

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

I think the main QQ'ers are the rich ones who have stacks of ecto.

I wish I was rich with stacks of ectos. Sadly, I have about 20k in my bank, and no ecto.

So, you were saying something about the complainers?

oliverrr1989 · Jun 22, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

So you're saying shadow form shouldnt be nerfed because it can be countered by a few things, but your other reason is because it is almost invulnerable and makes farming very easy? make your mind up

BTW most assassins couldn't organise the inside of an empty paper bag, let alone a huge protest.

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 22, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I wish I was rich with stacks of ectos. Sadly, I have about 20k in my bank, and no ecto.

So, you were saying something about the complainers?

Well it is your own fault for not having cash then... Have you heard about the Perma Sin Build? Easy to farm Chaos Plains. I think I have the build but i'm sure you can find it in game. Just go to ToA and talk to an A/E.

Xsiriss · Jun 22, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I agree, it's only about the so called higher classes of players beign greedy and they generally have all the money they need, perma SF provides a quick and easy way of getting ectos/anything really. I myself used it to get vabbian on my sin but since then I've only used it to farm the occasional green that you just can't get any other way, such as Icebloods Warstaff (my personal fav). More people are HAPPY with it than those that aren't, as Paladain said, cheaper ectos=good as it gives poorer payers a chance.

MithranArkanere · Jun 22, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

The thing is that not all professions have an 'invicibuild'.

Either you give each profession one, or you remove the ones that exist for the others.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I could care less about how much money I have. I was just pointing out that it's not only the rich people who are complaining.

jiggles · Jun 22, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

nerf it, theres something wrong with being able to solo just about anything. and in the 1month its been out, chaos plains have been raped so much ectos have droped by about 1.2k which is silly.

Robbert Monga · Jun 22, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

chance to do what? to get cheap stuff? why does it matter if it is cheap? where is coolness? where is sense of accomplishment? where is anything in that?
and what about people who worked hard farming fow/uw/doa/urgoz/deep/etc to get those ecto just so now every nub could get them almost for free?

Quote:

Currently, ectos are around 4k ea. Apparently, this is good because it gives more incentive for people to buy because it's cheaper. Economics 101. Cheaper is always better, since people can save more and use the money to buy things.

ya... except you wrong. Ectos are not food or gas or any other commodity consumed on daily basis. You get them once, you buy FoW armor and you done with them. Market overflows. Prices drop below basement level. Anything that was used to buy ectos with becomes useless dirt. Everyone becomes poor.
Ya... so to clarify your point, this sint economy 101... this is COMMUNIST economy 101.

Bug John · Jun 22, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

shards price has increased significantly, if you calculate the total amout of cash you need for an obsidian armor, it is higher than before

it's easier to farm ectos, but much harder to sell them, and to find shards

btw, obsidian armor has never had any special prestige to me, it just shows you spend enough time in game

normal players can now buy one in one week of farming, instead of one month, if you really want it (for hom or because you like the look), good for you, if it's just a question of e-peen, uninstall gw please

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jun 22, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Obsidian looks awful on pretty much every profession, in my opinion. Getting upset that this "prestigious" armor is worth less than before is silly, as this isn't the first time ecto price has dropped.

Ambuu · Jun 22, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

The price of ectos has indeed gone down, but it's stabilized (for now) at 4k.
But if you look at one thing: So many people have made Sins/others to farm the UW, and look at our favor. It is slowly decreasing, i remember it was 4,600 minutes and then the next day was down to about 4,200 or so.

So eventually, my theory is, the favor goes down to zero. People end up waiting for someone to make a maxed title so they can get into UW, thus ectos are obtained at a less rate than before. Price of ectos goes up.

but that theory is whack

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 22, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I wish I was rich with stacks of ectos. Sadly, I have about 20k in my bank, and no ecto.

Oh... Sorry I thought you were sad about not having any ecto or gold.

But I'm sure all the "Complainers" will be happy when the PvE Shadow Form nerf does come as I personally think ANET will nerf this. The Funny thing is that an A/Me with arcane echo can perma as well. It is just harder to pull off. All the A/E's out there that have just got wind of the ECTO LOVE that soloing the chaos plains has become will learn and switch. It will not be as easy though seeing as an Ele has some nice AoE damage. However i'm sure there is a build out there than can solo it.

While we are at it lets nerf the 55 by making PS target only other ally. LOL

Or the 600??? Nerf Spirit Bond again. Kick the Recharge up to 20 seconds. Way to many people doing CoF runs. They are making to much money charging for Hard Mode runs.

Or better yet... Make it so you can only take 8 Real people in the underworld with no heroes allowed sort of like the Real player demand in HA.

(Can you feel the sarcasm?)

It is PvE..... Guild Wars is over 3 years old. Balance is needed in PvP for sure. But PvE is just a game. I have done just about everything more than once. I enjoy buffs and gimmick builds now days cause it makes the game fun for me personally. I did all the missions with normal builds long before PvE Skills. I'm working on 30 titles and filling my HoM for GW2 so anything that makes that easier is good with me. I'm going to need a lot of gold to buy sweets, booze,party items and unid golds. So you will find me in ToA Farming Ectos with my A/E until ANET nerfs SF. Then it is off to the next gimmick build for me.